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John Gardner
Guest
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 Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: Proof Paul was not saved, Acts 20:26 |
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Snow's question was good enough to call for a simple, straightforward
scriptural response.
"The day of rest given to God alone", you say. Given to God by Whom? In my
Bible, God sanctified it himself. The Jews didn't "start one way" as you put
it. They entered into a covenant with YHWH. Part of the brit (covenant) was
to hallow the Sabbath. YHWH reiterated that He had sanctified that
particular and unique day and His people were to do this too. YHWH
considered this important enough to write it on stone tablets along with
proscriptions of murder, etc.
The Greek scriptures (Brit Chadasha) are full of references to Shabbat
observance by Jesus, the apostles and Paul. (I am still working through what
Snow says about Paul, but there is no doubt he observed the seventh day
Sabbath.) So tell me, Duke: where's the verse that kills the seventh day
Sabbath? If, as you think, Yeshua rose on the day after the Shabbat -- a
dubious proposition in itself -- what did He say or what did the Holy Spirit
say about observing His resurrection day as a substitute Shabbat?
On a lighter (?) note, you say about the 1968 DNC in Chicago "All I saw
there was anarchy of youthful cowards." And you think this was the Chicago
police's finest hour? Surely as a man of faith you know a good vine doesn't
yield thistles and a good father doesn't give a snake instead of bread! If
God was indeed the Heavenly Father of the Nicean Council, why would all
historical accounts describe it as more or less a gang rumble under the
supervision of a Roman Godfather? Is that how the true Elohim gives gifts to
His church? Is that what it's like in YOUR church on Sun Days?
With wry but honest respect,
John
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:h1rla457anbm1bp4honkok0uoka071grdu@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 07:05:08 -0700 (PDT), guardian Snow
snowpheonix@eck.net.au
wrote:
On Aug 19, 9:11 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
You could just as appropriately look to the 1968 Democratic
Convention in
Chicago to enlighten yourself on the meaning of democracy in
America.
Right, what do Caatholics have to do with Christianity? Nothing
except as a
heresy.
Assuming you're not joking, the answer is only the Church founded by
Christ with
the Holy Mass, 7 sacraments, and the Papacy.
Perhaps, in your infinite wisdom, you can offer some substantiation for
what
heresies exist in the Catholic Church.
What verse do you use to justify changing the Sabbath to Sunday?
What day is the Sabbath supposed to be on? Just because the Jews started
one
way and Christ rose on another day doesn't mean that the day of rest given
to
God alone, the reason for the Sabbath, should be as the old covenant
people
believe.
Your usually very good at supporting your doctrine from scriptures...
Where are the 7 sacraments?
MASS:
Do this in memory of me - Mat 26, Mark 14, Luke 22, 1Cor 11.
SACRAMENTS:
Baptism - John 3:5-6, Mat 28:19, Hebrew 2:14-15
Holy Eucharist - Mat 26, Mark 14, Luke 22, 1 Cor 11
Confession - John 20:22-23, Mat 9:2-8
Matrimony - Ephesians 5:31
Confirmation - Ephesians 1:13, Acts 8:14-17, 19:5-6,
Holy Orders - Acts 13:3 & 14:23, John 20:22, 1 & 2 Tim
Anointing of the Sick - Mark 6:12-13, John 5:14
A sacrament is an "outward sign" (action) taken by a person that God
clearly
showed is pleasing to him and is by definition an increase in the grace of
God
PAPACY:
Mat 16:13-20, Acts 15:7
Hope your having a great day Duke, with respect.
You too, snow.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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vernono
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:58 pm Post subject: Re: Proof Paul was not saved, Acts 20:26 |
|
|
"Jonathan Schattke" <wizwom@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9fa6e636-8064-4c1b-aa7d-8834bf407298@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 19, 10:58 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
| Quote: | What day is the Sabbath supposed to be on? Just because the Jews started
one
way and Christ rose on another day doesn't mean that the day of rest given
to
God alone, the reason for the Sabbath, should be as the old covenant
people
believe.
|
Christ rose on the evening at the end of the sabbath. He was already
risen and gone by the morning when the Women went to the tomb, the day
after... the sabbath!
So Jesus was crucified the day before Saturday and arose on Saturday? ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha |
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| |
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| Back to top |
vernono
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:58 pm Post subject: Re: Proof Paul was not saved, Acts 20:26 |
|
|
"John Gardner" <gardner1018@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:BSCqk.18859$hx.10334@pd7urf3no...
| Quote: | Snow's question was good enough to call for a simple, straightforward
scriptural response.
"The day of rest given to God alone", you say. Given to God by Whom? In my
Bible, God sanctified it himself. The Jews didn't "start one way" as you
put
it. They entered into a covenant with YHWH. Part of the brit (covenant)
was
|
What is a YHWH?
Jesus IS the REST.
| Quote: | to hallow the Sabbath. YHWH reiterated that He had sanctified that
particular and unique day and His people were to do this too. YHWH
considered this important enough to write it on stone tablets along with
proscriptions of murder, etc.
The Greek scriptures (Brit Chadasha) are full of references to Shabbat
observance by Jesus, the apostles and Paul. (I am still working through
what
Snow says about Paul, but there is no doubt he observed the seventh day
Sabbath.) So tell me, Duke: where's the verse that kills the seventh day
Sabbath? If, as you think, Yeshua rose on the day after the Shabbat -- a
dubious proposition in itself -- what did He say or what did the Holy
Spirit
say about observing His resurrection day as a substitute Shabbat?
|
We have no Shabbat.
Try English, egotist.
What is a Yeshua, Egotist.
Jesus did ABSOLUTELY nothing different on Saturday than any other day.
| Quote: |
On a lighter (?) note, you say about the 1968 DNC in Chicago "All I saw
there was anarchy of youthful cowards." And you think this was the Chicago
police's finest hour? Surely as a man of faith you know a good vine
doesn't
yield thistles and a good father doesn't give a snake instead of bread!
If
God was indeed the Heavenly Father of the Nicean Council, why would all
historical accounts describe it as more or less a gang rumble under the
supervision of a Roman Godfather? Is that how the true Elohim gives gifts
to
His church? Is that what it's like in YOUR church on Sun Days?
With wry but honest respect,
John
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:h1rla457anbm1bp4honkok0uoka071grdu@4ax.com...
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 07:05:08 -0700 (PDT), guardian Snow
snowpheonix@eck.net.au
wrote:
On Aug 19, 9:11 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
You could just as appropriately look to the 1968 Democratic
Convention in
Chicago to enlighten yourself on the meaning of democracy in
America.
Right, what do Caatholics have to do with Christianity? Nothing
except as a
heresy.
Assuming you're not joking, the answer is only the Church founded by
Christ with
the Holy Mass, 7 sacraments, and the Papacy.
Perhaps, in your infinite wisdom, you can offer some substantiation
for
what
heresies exist in the Catholic Church.
What verse do you use to justify changing the Sabbath to Sunday?
What day is the Sabbath supposed to be on? Just because the Jews started
one
way and Christ rose on another day doesn't mean that the day of rest
given
to
God alone, the reason for the Sabbath, should be as the old covenant
people
believe.
Your usually very good at supporting your doctrine from scriptures...
Where are the 7 sacraments?
MASS:
Do this in memory of me - Mat 26, Mark 14, Luke 22, 1Cor 11.
SACRAMENTS:
Baptism - John 3:5-6, Mat 28:19, Hebrew 2:14-15
Holy Eucharist - Mat 26, Mark 14, Luke 22, 1 Cor 11
Confession - John 20:22-23, Mat 9:2-8
Matrimony - Ephesians 5:31
Confirmation - Ephesians 1:13, Acts 8:14-17, 19:5-6,
Holy Orders - Acts 13:3 & 14:23, John 20:22, 1 & 2 Tim
Anointing of the Sick - Mark 6:12-13, John 5:14
A sacrament is an "outward sign" (action) taken by a person that God
clearly
showed is pleasing to him and is by definition an increase in the grace
of
God
PAPACY:
Mat 16:13-20, Acts 15:7
Hope your having a great day Duke, with respect.
You too, snow.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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John Gardner
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:58 pm Post subject: Re: Proof Paul was not saved, Acts 20:26 |
|
|
I seem to have ruffled some feathers. For this, I am sorry.
I use the best language I can. It doesn't do anything for my Ego ["What is
Ego, vernono?"]. It simply helps me to convey thoughts more precisely than
when I use sloppy language.
YHWH are the 4 Hebrew letters of our Heavenly Father's personal name. Read
Ex. 3:15. The letters are rendered in English as "Yahweh" or less correctly
"Jehovah". They are NOT the letters for "LORD". That is something that
translators put in because they don't know, or have superstitions about, the
Father's true name.
"Yeshua" or Yahoshua" is the Hebrew corresponding to the made-up Greek name
"Jesus". Those who love Him are likely to want to use His own given name,
which has meaning, rather than "Jesus", which has history.
Yeshua certainly is our "Rest". And He also reminded us that the Sabbath was
for men (i.e. for us) and said that heaven and earth would pass away sooner
than the tiniest letter of the Torah, which has plenty to say about Shabbat.
Read Matt. 5:18.
Shabbat = Hebrew for "rest" = Sabbath. You say Sabbath, I say Shabbat. So
what! The point is to honor it.
I hope this helps. You surely sound worried about something. Your real
enemy, you know, is Satan and his deceptions, not a mild-mannered ng poster
like me.
John
"vernono" <vernono@there.com> wrote in message
news:RnGqk.34$Pe5.26@fe101.usenetserver.com...
| Quote: |
"John Gardner" <gardner1018@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:BSCqk.18859$hx.10334@pd7urf3no...
Snow's question was good enough to call for a simple, straightforward
scriptural response.
"The day of rest given to God alone", you say. Given to God by Whom? In
my
Bible, God sanctified it himself. The Jews didn't "start one way" as you
put
it. They entered into a covenant with YHWH. Part of the brit (covenant)
was
What is a YHWH?
Jesus IS the REST.
to hallow the Sabbath. YHWH reiterated that He had sanctified that
particular and unique day and His people were to do this too. YHWH
considered this important enough to write it on stone tablets along with
proscriptions of murder, etc.
The Greek scriptures (Brit Chadasha) are full of references to Shabbat
observance by Jesus, the apostles and Paul. (I am still working through
what
Snow says about Paul, but there is no doubt he observed the seventh day
Sabbath.) So tell me, Duke: where's the verse that kills the seventh day
Sabbath? If, as you think, Yeshua rose on the day after the Shabbat -- a
dubious proposition in itself -- what did He say or what did the Holy
Spirit
say about observing His resurrection day as a substitute Shabbat?
We have no Shabbat.
Try English, egotist.
What is a Yeshua, Egotist.
Jesus did ABSOLUTELY nothing different on Saturday than any other day.
On a lighter (?) note, you say about the 1968 DNC in Chicago "All I saw
there was anarchy of youthful cowards." And you think this was the
Chicago
police's finest hour? Surely as a man of faith you know a good vine
doesn't
yield thistles and a good father doesn't give a snake instead of bread!
If
God was indeed the Heavenly Father of the Nicean Council, why would all
historical accounts describe it as more or less a gang rumble under the
supervision of a Roman Godfather? Is that how the true Elohim gives
gifts
to
His church? Is that what it's like in YOUR church on Sun Days?
With wry but honest respect,
John
"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:h1rla457anbm1bp4honkok0uoka071grdu@4ax.com...
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 07:05:08 -0700 (PDT), guardian Snow
snowpheonix@eck.net.au
wrote:
On Aug 19, 9:11 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
You could just as appropriately look to the 1968 Democratic
Convention in
Chicago to enlighten yourself on the meaning of democracy in
America.
Right, what do Caatholics have to do with Christianity? Nothing
except as a
heresy.
Assuming you're not joking, the answer is only the Church founded by
Christ with
the Holy Mass, 7 sacraments, and the Papacy.
Perhaps, in your infinite wisdom, you can offer some substantiation
for
what
heresies exist in the Catholic Church.
What verse do you use to justify changing the Sabbath to Sunday?
What day is the Sabbath supposed to be on? Just because the Jews
started
one
way and Christ rose on another day doesn't mean that the day of rest
given
to
God alone, the reason for the Sabbath, should be as the old covenant
people
believe.
Your usually very good at supporting your doctrine from scriptures...
Where are the 7 sacraments?
MASS:
Do this in memory of me - Mat 26, Mark 14, Luke 22, 1Cor 11.
SACRAMENTS:
Baptism - John 3:5-6, Mat 28:19, Hebrew 2:14-15
Holy Eucharist - Mat 26, Mark 14, Luke 22, 1 Cor 11
Confession - John 20:22-23, Mat 9:2-8
Matrimony - Ephesians 5:31
Confirmation - Ephesians 1:13, Acts 8:14-17, 19:5-6,
Holy Orders - Acts 13:3 & 14:23, John 20:22, 1 & 2 Tim
Anointing of the Sick - Mark 6:12-13, John 5:14
A sacrament is an "outward sign" (action) taken by a person that God
clearly
showed is pleasing to him and is by definition an increase in the grace
of
God
PAPACY:
Mat 16:13-20, Acts 15:7
Hope your having a great day Duke, with respect.
You too, snow.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
|
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| Back to top |
vernono
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:58 pm Post subject: Re: Proof Paul was not saved, Acts 20:26 |
|
|
"John Gardner" <gardner1018@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:uMHqk.97131$nD.49131@pd7urf1no...
| Quote: | I seem to have ruffled some feathers. For this, I am sorry.
I use the best language I can. It doesn't do anything for my Ego ["What is
Ego, vernono?"]. It simply helps me to convey thoughts more precisely than
when I use sloppy language.
YHWH are the 4 Hebrew letters of our Heavenly Father's personal name. Read
Ex. 3:15. The letters are rendered in English as "Yahweh" or less
correctly
"Jehovah". They are NOT the letters for "LORD". That is something that
translators put in because they don't know, or have superstitions about,
the
Father's true name.
"Yeshua" or Yahoshua" is the Hebrew corresponding to the made-up Greek
name
"Jesus". Those who love Him are likely to want to use His own given name,
which has meaning, rather than "Jesus", which has history.
Yeshua certainly is our "Rest". And He also reminded us that the Sabbath
was
for men (i.e. for us) and said that heaven and earth would pass away
sooner
than the tiniest letter of the Torah, which has plenty to say about
Shabbat.
Read Matt. 5:18.
Shabbat = Hebrew for "rest" = Sabbath. You say Sabbath, I say Shabbat. So
what! The point is to honor it.
I hope this helps. You surely sound worried about something. Your real
enemy, you know, is Satan and his deceptions, not a mild-mannered ng
poster
like me.
John
"vernono" <vernono@there.com> wrote in message
news:RnGqk.34$Pe5.26@fe101.usenetserver.com...
"John Gardner" <gardner1018@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:BSCqk.18859$hx.10334@pd7urf3no...
Snow's question was good enough to call for a simple, straightforward
scriptural response.
"The day of rest given to God alone", you say. Given to God by Whom? In
my
Bible, God sanctified it himself. The Jews didn't "start one way" as
you
put
it. They entered into a covenant with YHWH. Part of the brit (covenant)
was
What is a YHWH?
Jesus IS the REST.
to hallow the Sabbath. YHWH reiterated that He had sanctified that
particular and unique day and His people were to do this too. YHWH
considered this important enough to write it on stone tablets along
with
proscriptions of murder, etc.
The Greek scriptures (Brit Chadasha) are full of references to Shabbat
observance by Jesus, the apostles and Paul. (I am still working through
what
Snow says about Paul, but there is no doubt he observed the seventh day
Sabbath.) So tell me, Duke: where's the verse that kills the seventh
day
Sabbath? If, as you think, Yeshua rose on the day after the Shabbat --
a
dubious proposition in itself -- what did He say or what did the Holy
Spirit
say about observing His resurrection day as a substitute Shabbat?
We have no Shabbat.
Try English, egotist.
What is a Yeshua, Egotist.
Jesus did ABSOLUTELY nothing different on Saturday than any other day.
|
This is an English Language News Group. Using our letters to represent
Hebrew is mis-spelling the "name" of Jesus. It is hypocritical and or
egotistical.
I have studied Hebrew and Greek. I am not an expert. The "expert"
Professors I have asked about this agree that Yeshua, YWYH, Shabbat have no
reason to be in an English discussion, none whatsoever except to the ego of
the user.
Two of them said to ask the user what the Anglican spelling of the Aramaic
for God or Jesus is and they snickered. THE language of Jesus' time was,
Latin, Aramaic and Greek. Few Jews even knew Hebrew except in memorized
mantra.
When the Centurions addressed Jesus, they used Latin or Greek. They were
not allowed to speak to commoners in any other language. There is no
indication that they used a translator. Jesus responded in like language.
Want to know funny? How many self adulating use the Hebrew for "Holy
Spirit"?
NOTE, This is an English language N.G. (Even though one might tear my use
of it apart) |
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
John Gardner
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:43 am Post subject: Re: Proof Paul was not saved, Acts 20:26 |
|
|
The Hebrew for Holy Spirit is Ruach HaKodesh. We use this form regularly in
our prayers and blessings. I will leave it to others to respond to the
"Egotism" charge.
You say you have studied Hebrew and Greek and you asked your professors
(mighty learned ones, I'm sure) about the meanings of YHWH, Yeshua and
Shabbat. On the other hand, you asserted your pure ignorance of these
matters on a ng. In doing this, you laid yourself open to a charge graver
than egotism. Who was the father of the lie, again?
Shalom. This means peace. Tell your professors, you may get extra credit.
John
"vernono" <vernono@there.com> wrote in message
news:l5Jqk.44$MY1.37@fe113.usenetserver.com...
| Quote: |
"John Gardner" <gardner1018@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:uMHqk.97131$nD.49131@pd7urf1no...
I seem to have ruffled some feathers. For this, I am sorry.
I use the best language I can. It doesn't do anything for my Ego ["What
is
Ego, vernono?"]. It simply helps me to convey thoughts more precisely
than
when I use sloppy language.
YHWH are the 4 Hebrew letters of our Heavenly Father's personal name.
Read
Ex. 3:15. The letters are rendered in English as "Yahweh" or less
correctly
"Jehovah". They are NOT the letters for "LORD". That is something that
translators put in because they don't know, or have superstitions about,
the
Father's true name.
"Yeshua" or Yahoshua" is the Hebrew corresponding to the made-up Greek
name
"Jesus". Those who love Him are likely to want to use His own given
name,
which has meaning, rather than "Jesus", which has history.
Yeshua certainly is our "Rest". And He also reminded us that the Sabbath
was
for men (i.e. for us) and said that heaven and earth would pass away
sooner
than the tiniest letter of the Torah, which has plenty to say about
Shabbat.
Read Matt. 5:18.
Shabbat = Hebrew for "rest" = Sabbath. You say Sabbath, I say Shabbat.
So
what! The point is to honor it.
I hope this helps. You surely sound worried about something. Your real
enemy, you know, is Satan and his deceptions, not a mild-mannered ng
poster
like me.
John
"vernono" <vernono@there.com> wrote in message
news:RnGqk.34$Pe5.26@fe101.usenetserver.com...
"John Gardner" <gardner1018@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:BSCqk.18859$hx.10334@pd7urf3no...
Snow's question was good enough to call for a simple, straightforward
scriptural response.
"The day of rest given to God alone", you say. Given to God by Whom?
In
my
Bible, God sanctified it himself. The Jews didn't "start one way" as
you
put
it. They entered into a covenant with YHWH. Part of the brit
(covenant)
was
What is a YHWH?
Jesus IS the REST.
to hallow the Sabbath. YHWH reiterated that He had sanctified that
particular and unique day and His people were to do this too. YHWH
considered this important enough to write it on stone tablets along
with
proscriptions of murder, etc.
The Greek scriptures (Brit Chadasha) are full of references to
Shabbat
observance by Jesus, the apostles and Paul. (I am still working
through
what
Snow says about Paul, but there is no doubt he observed the seventh
day
Sabbath.) So tell me, Duke: where's the verse that kills the seventh
day
Sabbath? If, as you think, Yeshua rose on the day after the
Shabbat --
a
dubious proposition in itself -- what did He say or what did the Holy
Spirit
say about observing His resurrection day as a substitute Shabbat?
We have no Shabbat.
Try English, egotist.
What is a Yeshua, Egotist.
Jesus did ABSOLUTELY nothing different on Saturday than any other day.
This is an English Language News Group. Using our letters to represent
Hebrew is mis-spelling the "name" of Jesus. It is hypocritical and or
egotistical.
I have studied Hebrew and Greek. I am not an expert. The "expert"
Professors I have asked about this agree that Yeshua, YWYH, Shabbat have
no
reason to be in an English discussion, none whatsoever except to the ego
of
the user.
Two of them said to ask the user what the Anglican spelling of the Aramaic
for God or Jesus is and they snickered. THE language of Jesus' time was,
Latin, Aramaic and Greek. Few Jews even knew Hebrew except in memorized
mantra.
When the Centurions addressed Jesus, they used Latin or Greek. They were
not allowed to speak to commoners in any other language. There is no
indication that they used a translator. Jesus responded in like language.
Want to know funny? How many self adulating use the Hebrew for "Holy
Spirit"?
NOTE, This is an English language N.G. (Even though one might tear my use
of it apart)
|
|
|
| |
|
| Back to top |
vernono
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:02 am Post subject: Re: Proof Paul was not saved, Acts 20:26 |
|
|
"John Gardner" <gardner1018@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:yMJqk.19797$hx.5775@pd7urf3no...
| Quote: | The Hebrew for Holy Spirit is Ruach HaKodesh. We use this form regularly
in
our prayers and blessings. I will leave it to others to respond to the
"Egotism" charge.
You say you have studied Hebrew and Greek and you asked your professors
(mighty learned ones, I'm sure) about the meanings of YHWH, Yeshua and
Shabbat. On the other hand, you asserted your pure ignorance of these
matters on a ng. In doing this, you laid yourself open to a charge graver
than egotism. Who was the father of the lie, again?
Shalom. This means peace. Tell your professors, you may get extra credit.
John
|
So, you don't know English. I said none of what you say above.
OR
You just like to lie.
| Quote: |
"vernono" <vernono@there.com> wrote in message
news:l5Jqk.44$MY1.37@fe113.usenetserver.com...
"John Gardner" <gardner1018@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:uMHqk.97131$nD.49131@pd7urf1no...
I seem to have ruffled some feathers. For this, I am sorry.
I use the best language I can. It doesn't do anything for my Ego ["What
is
Ego, vernono?"]. It simply helps me to convey thoughts more precisely
than
when I use sloppy language.
YHWH are the 4 Hebrew letters of our Heavenly Father's personal name.
Read
Ex. 3:15. The letters are rendered in English as "Yahweh" or less
correctly
"Jehovah". They are NOT the letters for "LORD". That is something that
translators put in because they don't know, or have superstitions
about,
the
Father's true name.
"Yeshua" or Yahoshua" is the Hebrew corresponding to the made-up Greek
name
"Jesus". Those who love Him are likely to want to use His own given
name,
which has meaning, rather than "Jesus", which has history.
Yeshua certainly is our "Rest". And He also reminded us that the
Sabbath
was
for men (i.e. for us) and said that heaven and earth would pass away
sooner
than the tiniest letter of the Torah, which has plenty to say about
Shabbat.
Read Matt. 5:18.
Shabbat = Hebrew for "rest" = Sabbath. You say Sabbath, I say Shabbat.
So
what! The point is to honor it.
I hope this helps. You surely sound worried about something. Your real
enemy, you know, is Satan and his deceptions, not a mild-mannered ng
poster
like me.
John
"vernono" <vernono@there.com> wrote in message
news:RnGqk.34$Pe5.26@fe101.usenetserver.com...
"John Gardner" <gardner1018@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:BSCqk.18859$hx.10334@pd7urf3no...
Snow's question was good enough to call for a simple,
straightforward
scriptural response.
"The day of rest given to God alone", you say. Given to God by Whom?
In
my
Bible, God sanctified it himself. The Jews didn't "start one way" as
you
put
it. They entered into a covenant with YHWH. Part of the brit
(covenant)
was
What is a YHWH?
Jesus IS the REST.
to hallow the Sabbath. YHWH reiterated that He had sanctified that
particular and unique day and His people were to do this too. YHWH
considered this important enough to write it on stone tablets along
with
proscriptions of murder, etc.
The Greek scriptures (Brit Chadasha) are full of references to
Shabbat
observance by Jesus, the apostles and Paul. (I am still working
through
what
Snow says about Paul, but there is no doubt he observed the seventh
day
Sabbath.) So tell me, Duke: where's the verse that kills the seventh
day
Sabbath? If, as you think, Yeshua rose on the day after the
Shabbat --
a
dubious proposition in itself -- what did He say or what did the
Holy
Spirit
say about observing His resurrection day as a substitute Shabbat?
We have no Shabbat.
Try English, egotist.
What is a Yeshua, Egotist.
Jesus did ABSOLUTELY nothing different on Saturday than any other day.
This is an English Language News Group. Using our letters to represent
Hebrew is mis-spelling the "name" of Jesus. It is hypocritical and or
egotistical.
I have studied Hebrew and Greek. I am not an expert. The "expert"
Professors I have asked about this agree that Yeshua, YWYH, Shabbat have
no
reason to be in an English discussion, none whatsoever except to the ego
of
the user.
Two of them said to ask the user what the Anglican spelling of the
Aramaic
for God or Jesus is and they snickered. THE language of Jesus' time was,
Latin, Aramaic and Greek. Few Jews even knew Hebrew except in memorized
mantra.
When the Centurions addressed Jesus, they used Latin or Greek. They were
not allowed to speak to commoners in any other language. There is no
indication that they used a translator. Jesus responded in like language.
Want to know funny? How many self adulating use the Hebrew for "Holy
Spirit"?
NOTE, This is an English language N.G. (Even though one might tear my
use
of it apart)
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guardian Snow
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Proof Paul was not saved, Acts 20:26 |
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On Aug 21, 1:54 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:42:43 -0700 (PDT), guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au
wrote:
On Aug 20, 1:58 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 07:05:08 -0700 (PDT), guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au
wrote:
On Aug 19, 9:11 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
You could just as appropriately look to the 1968 Democratic Convention in
Chicago to enlighten yourself on the meaning of democracy in America.
Right, what do Caatholics have to do with Christianity? Nothing except as a
heresy.
Assuming you're not joking, the answer is only the Church founded by Christ with
the Holy Mass, 7 sacraments, and the Papacy.
Perhaps, in your infinite wisdom, you can offer some substantiation for what
heresies exist in the Catholic Church.
What verse do you use to justify changing the Sabbath to Sunday?
What day is the Sabbath supposed to be on? Just because the Jews started one
way and Christ rose on another day doesn't mean that the day of rest given to
God alone, the reason for the Sabbath, should be as the old covenant people
believe.
Your usually very good at supporting your doctrine from scriptures....
Where are the 7 sacraments?
MASS:
Do this in memory of me - Mat 26, Mark 14, Luke 22, 1Cor 11.
SACRAMENTS:
Baptism - John 3:5-6, Mat 28:19, Hebrew 2:14-15
Holy Eucharist - Mat 26, Mark 14, Luke 22, 1 Cor 11
Confession - John 20:22-23, Mat 9:2-8
Matrimony - Ephesians 5:31
Confirmation - Ephesians 1:13, Acts 8:14-17, 19:5-6,
Holy Orders - Acts 13:3 & 14:23, John 20:22, 1 & 2 Tim
Anointing of the Sick - Mark 6:12-13, John 5:14
A sacrament is an "outward sign" (action) taken by a person that God clearly
showed is pleasing to him and is by definition an increase in the grace of God
PAPACY:
Mat 16:13-20, Acts 15:7
Hope your having a great day Duke, with respect.
You too, snow.
You know your always in my prayers... I think I'll take some time to
look those verses up and read up on your sacraments. I noticed in the
"outward signs" circumcision wasn't a part of this.. why not?
Because it was replaced by Baptism.
Act 16:3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and
circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for
they knew all that his father was a Greek.
That well says he was circumcised because he (likely) was Jewish.
If it was good enough for Paul to do, why don't Catholics?
They were Jews in those quarters.
|
Thanks for sharing your point of view with me:) I respect your belief
but disagree myself. Take care brother and let's both say a few
prayers for wisdom.
Shalom my friend,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
In essence, if we want to direct our lives, we must take control of
our consistent actions. It's not what we do once in a while that
shapes our lives, but what we do consistently.
Tony Robbins
(Mar 16:2) (Mar 16:9) (Luk 18:12) (Luk 24:1)
(Joh 20:1) (Joh 20:19) (Act 20:7) (1Co 16:2) (Heb 4:9)
Each of these verses that have the word Sabbath removed.
http://www.isr-messianic.org/
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
A moderated forum. |
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duke
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: Proof Paul was not saved, Acts 20:26 |
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:51:45 GMT, "John Gardner" <gardner1018@shaw.ca> wrote:
| Quote: | Snow's question was good enough to call for a simple, straightforward
scriptural response.
|
I gave him one. The answer is not that it's Saturday or Sunday for that matter.
| Quote: | "The day of rest given to God alone", you say. Given to God by Whom? In my
Bible, God sanctified it himself.
|
Ok, now was it a Saturday or a Sunday?
| Quote: | The Jews didn't "start one way" as you put
it. They entered into a covenant with YHWH.
|
Ok, now what day of the week is the Sabbath per the covenant?
| Quote: | The Greek scriptures (Brit Chadasha) are full of references to Shabbat
observance by Jesus, the apostles and Paul. (I am still working through what
Snow says about Paul, but there is no doubt he observed the seventh day
Sabbath.) So tell me, Duke: where's the verse that kills the seventh day
Sabbath?
|
There is no seventh day sabbath except to the Jews. God said take 6, give me
one. The Lord rose on Sunday, so we give him that day.
| Quote: | If, as you think, Yeshua rose on the day after the Shabbat -- a
dubious proposition in itself -- what did He say or what did the Holy Spirit
say about observing His resurrection day as a substitute Shabbat?
|
Are you really suggesting that the Jews maintained a perfect calendar from the
time of the old covenant to Easter?
| Quote: | On a lighter (?) note, you say about the 1968 DNC in Chicago "All I saw
there was anarchy of youthful cowards." And you think this was the Chicago
police's finest hour?
|
It was a bad time for an anarchy of youthful cowards.
| Quote: | Surely as a man of faith you know a good vine doesn't
yield thistles and a good father doesn't give a snake instead of bread! If
God was indeed the Heavenly Father of the Nicean Council, why would all
historical accounts describe it as more or less a gang rumble under the
supervision of a Roman Godfather?
|
Must be a protest_ant that wrote that.
| Quote: | Is that how the true Elohim gives gifts to
His church? Is that what it's like in YOUR church on Sun Days?
|
My Lord is God almighty.
| Quote: | With wry but honest respect,
|
Questionable.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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duke
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Proof Paul was not saved, Acts 20:26 |
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:42:43 -0700 (PDT), guardian Snow <snowpheonix@eck.net.au>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Aug 20, 1:58 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 07:05:08 -0700 (PDT), guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au
wrote:
On Aug 19, 9:11 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
You could just as appropriately look to the 1968 Democratic Convention in
Chicago to enlighten yourself on the meaning of democracy in America.
Right, what do Caatholics have to do with Christianity? Nothing except as a
heresy.
Assuming you're not joking, the answer is only the Church founded by Christ with
the Holy Mass, 7 sacraments, and the Papacy.
Perhaps, in your infinite wisdom, you can offer some substantiation for what
heresies exist in the Catholic Church.
What verse do you use to justify changing the Sabbath to Sunday?
What day is the Sabbath supposed to be on? Just because the Jews started one
way and Christ rose on another day doesn't mean that the day of rest given to
God alone, the reason for the Sabbath, should be as the old covenant people
believe.
Your usually very good at supporting your doctrine from scriptures...
Where are the 7 sacraments?
MASS:
Do this in memory of me - Mat 26, Mark 14, Luke 22, 1Cor 11.
SACRAMENTS:
Baptism - John 3:5-6, Mat 28:19, Hebrew 2:14-15
Holy Eucharist - Mat 26, Mark 14, Luke 22, 1 Cor 11
Confession - John 20:22-23, Mat 9:2-8
Matrimony - Ephesians 5:31
Confirmation - Ephesians 1:13, Acts 8:14-17, 19:5-6,
Holy Orders - Acts 13:3 & 14:23, John 20:22, 1 & 2 Tim
Anointing of the Sick - Mark 6:12-13, John 5:14
A sacrament is an "outward sign" (action) taken by a person that God clearly
showed is pleasing to him and is by definition an increase in the grace of God
PAPACY:
Mat 16:13-20, Acts 15:7
Hope your having a great day Duke, with respect.
You too, snow.
You know your always in my prayers... I think I'll take some time to
look those verses up and read up on your sacraments. I noticed in the
"outward signs" circumcision wasn't a part of this.. why not?
|
Because it was replaced by Baptism.
| Quote: | Act 16:3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and
circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for
they knew all that his father was a Greek.
|
That well says he was circumcised because he (likely) was Jewish.
| Quote: | If it was good enough for Paul to do, why don't Catholics?
|
They were Jews in those quarters.
| Quote: | Isa 52:1 Awake, awake! Put on your strength, O Tsiyon, put on your
garments of splendour, O Yerushalayim, the set-apart city! For no more
do the uncircumcised and the unclean come into you.
Isa 52:2 Shake yourself from the dust, arise, and sit down, O
Yerushalayim. Loose yourself from the bonds of your neck, O captive
daughter of Tsiyon!
Isa 52:3 For thus said ????, “You have been sold for naught, and you
are redeemed not with silver.”
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duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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duke
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: Proof Paul was not saved, Acts 20:26 |
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:21:08 -0700 (PDT), Jonathan Schattke <wizwom@gmail.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Aug 19, 10:58 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
What day is the Sabbath supposed to be on? Just because the Jews started one
way and Christ rose on another day doesn't mean that the day of rest given to
God alone, the reason for the Sabbath, should be as the old covenant people
believe.
Christ rose on the evening at the end of the sabbath. He was already
risen and gone by the morning when the Women went to the tomb, the day
after... the sabbath!
|
The Sabbath runs from 6 pm Friday to 6 pm Saturday.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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duke
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: Proof Paul was not saved, Acts 20:26 |
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:18:15 -0700 (PDT), Jonathan Schattke <wizwom@gmail.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Aug 19, 6:11 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:22:30 -0700, "vernono" <vern...@there.com> wrote:
Right, what do Caatholics have to do with Christianity? Nothing except as a
heresy.
Assuming you're not joking, the answer is only the Church founded by Christ with
the Holy Mass, 7 sacraments, and the Papacy.
Perhaps, in your infinite wisdom, you can offer some substantiation for what
heresies exist in the Catholic Church.
The Holy Mass, the Seven sacrament, and the Papacy are all heresies,
for a start.
|
Explain that to God, not me. It's in his book, the bible.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
***** |
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Jonathan Schattke
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:44 pm Post subject: Re: Proof Paul was not saved, Acts 20:26 |
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On Aug 20, 10:56 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:18:15 -0700 (PDT), Jonathan Schattke <wiz...@gmail..com
wrote:
On Aug 19, 6:11 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 16:22:30 -0700, "vernono" <vern...@there.com> wrote:
Right, what do Caatholics have to do with Christianity? Nothing except as a
heresy.
Assuming you're not joking, the answer is only the Church founded by Christ with
the Holy Mass, 7 sacraments, and the Papacy.
Perhaps, in your infinite wisdom, you can offer some substantiation for what
heresies exist in the Catholic Church.
The Holy Mass, the Seven sacrament, and the Papacy are all heresies,
for a start.
Explain that to God, not me. It's in his book, the bible.
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Isa 6:9 And He said, "Go, and you shall say to this people, 'Hearing,
you hear, but do not understand; and seeing, you see, but do not
know.'
Isa 6:10 "Make the heart of this people fat, and their ears heavy,
and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with
their ears, and understand with their heart, and shall turn and be
healed."
But, I shan't lay it out for you. You have chosen your path, the path
the Eternal has given you leave to understand. He chose not to call
you, or you chose not to respond, same effect, but a different end. |
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Jonathan Schattke
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:51 pm Post subject: Re: Proof Paul was not saved, Acts 20:26 |
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On Aug 19, 3:58 pm, "vernono" <vern...@there.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "Jonathan Schattke" <wiz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9fa6e636-8064-4c1b-aa7d-8834bf407298@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 19, 10:58 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
What day is the Sabbath supposed to be on? Just because the Jews started
one
way and Christ rose on another day doesn't mean that the day of rest given
to
God alone, the reason for the Sabbath, should be as the old covenant
people
believe.
Christ rose on the evening at the end of the sabbath. He was already
risen and gone by the morning when the Women went to the tomb, the day
after... the sabbath!
So Jesus was crucified the day before Saturday and arose on Saturday? ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha
|
No, he died before one Sabbath started (15th Abib, the First Day of
Unleavened Bread), and rose three days later, at the end of a
different sabbath (a weekly sabbath) - which would have been the 17th
of Abib.
He died just before the end of the 14th, and was entombed before
sundown. He was in the tomb all of the Night after the 14th, Day of
the 15th, night after the 15th, day of the 16th, night of the 16th,
and the day of the 17th... and so, three days and three night being
complete, the night of the 17th, he rose from the dead. The ladies
went to the tomb on the morning as the 18th started. |
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vernono
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Proof Paul was not saved, Acts 20:26 |
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"Jonathan Schattke" <wizwom@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7896f43e-ee0e-41e4-9c6d-e2f6d84e6fbf@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 19, 3:58 pm, "vernono" <vern...@there.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "Jonathan Schattke" <wiz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9fa6e636-8064-4c1b-aa7d-8834bf407298@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 19, 10:58 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
What day is the Sabbath supposed to be on? Just because the Jews started
one
way and Christ rose on another day doesn't mean that the day of rest
given
to
God alone, the reason for the Sabbath, should be as the old covenant
people
believe.
Christ rose on the evening at the end of the sabbath. He was already
risen and gone by the morning when the Women went to the tomb, the day
after... the sabbath!
So Jesus was crucified the day before Saturday and arose on Saturday? ha
ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha
No, he died before one Sabbath started (15th Abib, the First Day of |
Unleavened Bread), and rose three days later, at the end of a
different sabbath (a weekly sabbath) - which would have been the 17th
of Abib.
| Quote: |
Hey someone who actually knows the Sabbath vs. the High Sabbath, thus |
creating a three day three night scenario.
Of Course even in the most traditional English speaking environment, there
is no Abib.
It was not SIMPLY a weekly sabbath. It was High Sabbath.
Of course you know that for about four hundred years the seventh day was
twice and thus our "seventh" day is not a multiple of seven days.
It is obvious that you are not Hebrew or Jewish and never have been. You
are a pretender.
I am and have been.
To this day, even though I am a Christian, I have the right's to preside in
Passover cellebrations (meals) in many Synagogs.
| Quote: |
He died just before the end of the 14th, and was entombed before |
sundown. He was in the tomb all of the Night after the 14th, Day of
the 15th, night after the 15th, day of the 16th, night of the 16th,
and the day of the 17th... and so, three days and three night being
complete, the night of the 17th, he rose from the dead. The ladies
went to the tomb on the morning as the 18th started.
Actually NOTHING indicates that the ladies were there before sunrise
When they got there He was risen. |
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